WorldCon has considered itself a bastion of the progressive in the face of the recent Sad/Rabid Puppy traditionalist siege, so the recent programming crisis has blindsided a lot of people. For anyone who’s missed it, some of the high points played out on Twitter like this:
- Bogi Takács complains about errors representing their name and gender in the WorldCon bio.
- After responses from the WorldCon team, the staff is accused of lying about the errors.
- Some guests complain about bios and photos being taken from their private accounts.
- The programming schedule is issued and several Hugo Award nominees are not represented, although some members of the staff are listed on multiple panels.
- WorldCon issues an explanation about programming as follows: “There’s a generation of new Hugo finalists who are exciting to the nominators but completely unfamiliar to attendees.”
- JY Yang calls out WorldCon staff for not providing program space for #ownvoices (later amended to not a good enough space).
- Management continues to apologize and promises to rework the schedule.
A lot of this likely has to do with standard inefficiency and delegating the work to clueless but enthusiastic volunteers way down the food chain. Dealing with the nominees and panel applicants also looks like a matter of herding cats, where potential guests, in time-honored fashion, totally fail to RSVP. However, there are a couple of interesting issues that showed up in the discussion about this at File 770.
The first is the revelation that out of 4630 attendees to the con, 2000 of them applied for positions on the program. This is 43%, or almost half. This suggests that these 2000 are either industry professionals with something to promote, or else they consider themselves professional fans with an opinion worth listening to. Of course, this means the staff in charge of programming have a huge pile of applications to wade through, trying to sort out who might be interesting to the larger body of attendees.
The real mind-bender from the above, of course, is that comment: “There’s a generation of new Hugo finalists who are exciting to the nominators but completely unfamiliar to attendees.” Since this comment was not well considered, I think we can assume it represents an unfiltered assessment of the situation from someone on the programming staff who is struggling to sort out those 2000 applicants. The reason it’s not well considered, of course, is that it strongly implies the WorldCon attendees either haven’t read or don’t much care about the work of the Hugo finalists.
This is a huge crisis of faith. At File 770, it led to questions about the reliability of the new EPH voting system installed last year, which was meant to ensure “diversity” by reducing the impact of slate voting. But actually, this isn’t a problem in reliability of the nomination and voting system, or even a question of cheating. I talked to a WorldCon member who told me what she does. Because she’s very busy, she doesn’t really have time to read ahead of the vote, so she just checks lists of recommendations and chooses prominent minorities and women for the ballot. I’d like to suggest this is why the WorldCon membership isn’t really excited about the work of this years’ finalists. They were chosen for who they are rather than for what they wrote.
At this point, I hope this isn’t a surprise to anybody. After all, isn’t that why people put up those biographies that describe their minority status in such detail?
David VanDyke
Aug 16, 2018 @ 23:22:33
Pavlov and Skinner and common sense tell us that when behavior is rewarded, it increases the likelihood of similar behavior. If writers are rewarded more for who they are than for what they write, they will emphasize who they are. And when those of a certain bent and bias are making the decisions on who gets to present themselves and their viewpoints, based on these identities rather than on their work, then merit has become largely irrelevant.
Yes, I’m aware of the counter-arguments, some of them quite valid, about who’s judging merit and in what context. But in this case, the greater body that nominated and voted for the Hugos–i.e., members of Worldcon, who are majority-progressive–had the chance to decide what work was meritorious, but instead went with identity as the determinant of award. They undermined their own case, in other words, and played into the far-right narrative of the Hugos becoming a joke.
The only way to get out of this mess is to stop bowing to extremists from any part of the membership. I’m not sure how to do it, but is there any other way?
If we want the Hugos to be based on merit, the thing that comes to mind for me is that rather than Hugos being selected from published works, they could be selected from unpublished works submitted. The works could be stripped of all identifiers as to who wrote them, with that information being available only to a select few, and the works could be judged on merit. Otherwise, it’s mostly just a popularity contest, thoroughly contaminated by various politics.
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thephantom182
Aug 17, 2018 @ 00:30:54
This is another example of what’s happening to WorldCon this year:
http://phantomsoapbox.blogspot.com/2018/08/your-gayness-will-not-save-you.html
This is a story I just spotted on Drudge today. Television hero of Queer Eye mentioned on Twitter that not -all- Republicans are utterly evil, and was immediately chucked under the bus. Being gay no longer gets you a pass these days. “Punch a TERF” was a big thing this year at Pride Day parades.
WorldCon is, and has been for a very long time, a majority Left club. Possibly exclusively Left the last ten years. Nothing they do, from picking a location to nominating for the Hugo, is done without a political framework.
What’s changed this year is the intensity. They’ve stopped pretending to be inclusive. Some fans are more equal than other fans.
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greghullender
Aug 17, 2018 @ 00:45:33
Just speaking for short fiction, it’s not accurate to say that all or even most of the nominees were chosen for who they are. Most of them are highly-recommended stories (including by me). If you want to talk about specific stories, I’d be happy to do so.
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Lela E. Buis
Aug 17, 2018 @ 11:50:11
Greg, I’m not saying the nominated works aren’t decent. The review system normally produces a good-quality list of stories to choose from. It filters out the chaff, even though some of the reviewers seem to stretch a bit to meet the diversity requirements.
I do think many of the Hugo voters then do like my friend, though, which is to go down the Locus list (for example) and choose minorities and women to vote for. It’s not like there aren’t some great stories out there written by men. We saw some of them on the Nebula ballot this year. The Hugo results show how these same stories, considered the “best” by the professionals in the SFWA, just don’t make the grade for the Hugo.
Then the programming at WorldCon turns out to exclude the finalists? The WorldCon attendees aren’t really “excited” about these people? That strongly suggests they’re seen only as political tools and not really this years’ “best” in the field.
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thephantom182
Aug 17, 2018 @ 21:15:21
Greg Hullender said: “Just speaking for short fiction, it’s not accurate to say that all or even most of the nominees were chosen for who they are.”
Bogi Takács PERSON wasn’t chosen for his gender pronouns instead of what he wrote? You’re never going to sell me on that one, Greg.
Greg Hullender said: “I haven’t heard anyone blaming the Puppies for anything.”
Contemptible Flopatron (Or as Chris Chupik has coined, Cacophonous Fornication) was nominated on the strength of his puppy kicking, and because they got tired of giving it to China Mike every year despite his puppy kicking.
Every time anything around WorldCon is mentioned, Puppies are always blamed.
And finally, Greg Hullender said: “It’s a narrative that some people believe in so strongly that they don’t seem to feel any need to actually read any of the stories.”
Five bucks says that whatever Bogi Takács PERSON wrote, its pure message-fic. I feel that’s a pretty safe bet, sight unseen.
Speaking of narratives and themes, at Sarah Hoyt’s today we are talking at some length about a typical Hugo Awarded story, “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas” by Ursula K. LeGuin.
We’re thinking about an anthology: the ones who return to Omelas. Guess why they came back.
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Cora
Aug 17, 2018 @ 23:41:06
Once again, Bogi Takács was nominated for not nominated for their short fiction, but for best fanwriter. If you want to complain about the Hugo finalists, at least check what they’re nominated for.
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thephantom182
Aug 18, 2018 @ 00:50:54
Cora said: “If you want to complain about the Hugo finalists, at least check what they’re nominated for.”
Why? I’ve read -nothing- nominated this year, except for Floppy’s ridiculous blog. Floppy got nominated for puppy-kicking, I’m assuming Takács got nominated on straight-up pronouns. So edgy, the pronouns. The actual fan-writing? Tell me he’s not a devout puppy-kicker. Go on, tell me I’m wrong.
On the other thing I mentioned, what’s your take on Omelas, Cora? Full-time resident, or walk away?
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greghullender
Aug 18, 2018 @ 09:36:52
As Cora says, none of Bogi’s stories has ever been nominated for a Hugo. I’ve read and reviewed 5 of Bogi’s stories over the years, giving three of them 2-stars and two of them 3-stars, which is pretty bad.
Their main problem as a fiction writer isn’t pronouns (although at least one story turns out to “really” be about pronouns in a way that’s so ham-handed I felt embarrassed for the writer, even if it was Bogi); it’s that they can’t manage to create a story that actually has a plot.
I haven’t read any of Bogi’s fan writing, although I’m told it’s much better than their fiction. I think of Bogi as a non-binary Jon Del Arroz; someone who tries to create controversy as a strategy to get attention–even if that involves attacking WorldCon publicly.
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thephantom182
Aug 18, 2018 @ 10:49:21
Greg Hullender said: “I think of Bogi as a non-binary Jon Del Arroz; someone who tries to create controversy as a strategy to get attention–even if that involves attacking WorldCon publicly.”
I agree, this is my assessment as well. With the one difference being that WorldCon re-wrote their whole program to please one of these people, and pre-crimed the other. (Pre-crime is not a verb of course, I’m just being difficult. ~:)
A consistent approach to moral blackmail would be more appropriate, I think. Something like what Dragon Con is doing, by telling the authors they can -all- campaign, and telling the political types to p1ss off.
The correct approach to moral blackmail is to advise the blackmailers not to let the door hit them on the @ss as they leave. WorldCon would have been -much- better served to let their whole slate of Big Authors pull out in protest. (Plus, I’d have had fun watching which ones slunk back in, pretending it was all the way they planned it.)
I predict a quiet revolution among the lumpenproletariat of WorldCon, as they either vote out the existing management or silently discontinue their participation. The most likely future I see is ten shriveled old Marxists meeting at a Denny’s in San Francisco once a year to vote on who’s going to be banned next.
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greghullender
Aug 19, 2018 @ 11:41:52
Actually, I’d say that WorldCon (and others) simply need to stop taking “Twitter Rage” so seriously. Particularly when it starts to look as though each episode is driven by the same group of people. The parallel with the Puppies (cynical leaders just trying to sell books; gullible followers looking for something to be indignant about) is very strong. I agree entirely they ought to be treated the same way. However, the Twitter folks have been more careful about whom they attack and how they do it. The Puppies made some serious mistakes that alienated thousands of people very early in the process. I think that accounts for a lot of the difference.
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Cora
Aug 18, 2018 @ 15:34:11
I have no idea why people nominated Bogi Takács, since I did not nominate them. I also don’t recall ever having read any fiction by them. I did check out their contributions in the Hugo voters’ packet and ranked them quite a bit down the ballot, but above no award.
I did nominate Camestros, because I like his writing and his sense of humor. And while I can’t speak for anybody else, I didn’t nominate him just for the puppy stuff, but also for his reviews, the “McEdifice Returns” military SF parody and other stuff.
As for “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas”, it’s a fine classic story, but it won the Hugo Award for best short story in 1974 and is probably a better fit for Galactic Journey.
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thephantom182
Aug 18, 2018 @ 17:20:05
Cora said: “As for “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas”, it’s a fine classic story, but it won the Hugo Award for best short story in 1974 and is probably a better fit for Galactic Journey.”
In case you were ever wondering what the Sad Puppy Alignment was ever about, or why it is even a thing, many of us consider that story to be the Platonic Ideal of everything we’ve objected to in SF the last 20 years. The themes particularly, but also the fact that there is no plot, no characters, no story, really. Its a travelogue.
This is not to say the story was of poor quality, or did not have an impact. 44 years later and I’m still angry about it, that’s an impact. Many of us are very angry about it, as it turns out.
To the point where Sarah Hoyt suggested an anthology of “Return To Omelas” stories, and people are taking that seriously. Mine’s already written.
Point being, its fine, probably even good, to have a story like that come along once in a while. But that’s not where we are, in 2018. What we have now is a steady diet of nothing but that.
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greghullender
Aug 19, 2018 @ 11:31:19
I’ll admit I read “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas” within a year or two of when it first came out, and I hated it then too. No characters, no plot–nothing but a naive political message. It is, however, beautifully written. I’ve heard it described as a “prose poem,” and that’s probably more accurate than calling it a story. (I seriously doubt it would have been a finalist, much less a Hugo winner without Le Guin’s name on it.)
Such “stories” do still make it into print, but they’re extremely rare. Look through Rocket Stack Rank for one and two-star reviews with the comment “not a story” and you’ll find a few–but just a very few. (There are also a few non-stories that just gush over a cool setting or a cool idea with no overt message.)
Overwhelmingly, short fiction published today in the top outlets has strong characters and strong plots. Likewise stuff that gets nominated for the major awards, included in the big “Best-of” anthologies, and recommended by the prolific reviewers. Sure, every year there are one or two WTF nominees, but that’s about it. EPH probably makes that easier, given that some people really do like that sort of thing (tastes really do vary), but I think it’ll be hard for something like that to actually win these days.
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thephantom182
Aug 19, 2018 @ 14:51:07
Greg Hulender said: “…(cynical leaders just trying to sell books; gullible followers looking for something to be indignant about)…”
Greg, in all seriousness, do I really seem like a “gullible follower” to you? The type of guy who will latch onto any band wagon driven by any jumped-up snake oil salesman in the hope of a little juicy outrage?
I realize one always wants to paint the opposition side as a pack of fools, but one does (or should) try to retain some intellectual honesty as well.
Like you, I’m so old that I read Omelas as an adult when it first came out, mostly because it got a Hugo and it was in a Best Of anthology. Not the first time I was shocked and disappointed with a Hugo-winning story, even in the 1970’s.
Fast forward to now, the same “naive political message” you mentioned is the unexamined ground state that most short SF fiction stands on. Which is why I don’t read it. It isn’t this ‘subtle influence’ type of thing, where you can see it if you squint really hard. Its more the ‘flounder to the side of the head’ where the substance of the world-building is that same naive political message.
Possibly you don’t see it because that sort of thing doesn’t annoy you. I must say it bothers the hell out of me, and I’ve abandoned short-stories, comic books and television because of it. That’s not something a fan does lightly. Just sayin’.
And please, lets not nit-pick shall we? I’m sure there are stories out there which don’t include that stuff that makes me angry. It isn’t worth it to wade through volumes that do to find the odd one that doesn’t. My liver can’t take it anymore.
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greghullender
Aug 20, 2018 @ 11:51:02
Just a quick note to say I didn’t mean you personally. (Although I still think you ought to try a few of the stories I’ve recommended.) 🙂
Eric and I are at WorldCon. Today is the last day, so we’re packing up to fly home this afternoon. Last night we lost a Hugo Award for Best Fanzine (as we expected we would) but we had greatly feared ending up under No Award, and that’s had me on edge for weeks. I’m pleased to report we beat No Award by a comfortable margin, even if we did come in 6 out of 6 in the category.
Oh and some drunk woman at George R.R. Martin’s “Hugo Loser’s Party” managed to pour a full glass of red wine all over me last night, ruining not only my new white shirt but even my underwear, so we didn’t get to enjoy the party for very long. 😦
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Lela E. Buis
Aug 19, 2018 @ 16:24:02
As I recall, I really liked some of the stories in the Omelas collection, but not the title piece. It’s an interesting philosophical question, but as Phantom has pointed out, it’s offensive because there’s nothing you can do about the problem except walk away. I’d be in that band of folks with my sword out, ready to attack and change the system. It’s something of the same scenario Jemisin set up in her Broken Earth trilogy, where the world operates at the expense of a few enslaved individuals. We needed a hero to come along and slay the bad guys on that one, too.
Has Sarah put out a submission call for her Return to Omelas idea?
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thephantom182
Aug 19, 2018 @ 21:36:06
Lela asks: “Has Sarah put out a submission call for her Return to Omelas idea?”
The thread link is here: https://accordingtohoyt.com/2018/08/17/the-state-of-the-human-wave-fiction-version-by-alma-boykin/#comment-550364
Not so much a call for submissions, more a plaint that there’s not enough hours in the day. But drop Sarah a line, she likes joiners. ~:D
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thephantom182
Aug 21, 2018 @ 09:01:26
Nice to know you didn’t mean me personally. 🙂
As to trying the recommended stories, I really have stopped reading. I just don’t do it anymore, unless one of my small stable of favorite authors has a new release. If it wasn’t for Neal Asher and Larry Correia, I’d never read at all. It isn’t worth the raised blood pressure.
I used to be a voracious consumer of SF/F, I’d buy a stack of five at the used bookstore for a buck each, and devour them in a week, go back for more. And now I -don’t-. I never read anymore.
Demonstrating that loyal fans can be induced to quit.
I think you’ll find that most Sad Puppy types are like me, Greg. Older, long-time fans, can’t find anything to read.
Greg Hullender said: “I’m pleased to report we beat No Award by a comfortable margin, even if we did come in 6 out of 6 in the category.”
That you were worried RSR would come in behind Noah Ward, especially considering the quality of the other nominations, is a perfect illustration of Lela’s point in this post. It was bullshit that you guys had to worry like that, and it makes me angry.
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Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Aug 17, 2018 @ 01:18:50
My only remark on this whole thing that any attempts to try blame any Puppies for this year’s Worldcon failures are wholly false. We’ve all moved on, and other than to point, laugh and remark with amusement or analysis after the fact, we’ve been utterly uninvolved.
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greghullender
Aug 17, 2018 @ 10:44:36
I haven’t heard anyone blaming the Puppies for anything. People seem to understand that Jon Del Arroz is doing his own thing, nor is he himself claiming to represent the Puppies.
Of course that’s mostly because everyone thinks the Puppies are dead, and–let’s be honest–Dead Puppies Aren’t Much Fun. 🙂
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Lela E. Buis
Aug 17, 2018 @ 11:54:54
I believe Jon Del Arroz bills himself as a Happy Frog. I notice he’s suing WorldCon, too.
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Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Aug 17, 2018 @ 16:04:04
I believe examples were shown to you in one of the discussions in MGC. *shrug*
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greghullender
Aug 17, 2018 @ 17:19:09
It’s possible I missed it. MGC’s comments can be overwhelming sometimes. But, so far, I’ve not found anyone who made accusations about “message fiction” actually willing to talk about specific stories. It’s a narrative that some people believe in so strongly that they don’t seem to feel any need to actually read any of the stories.
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Lela E. Buis
Aug 17, 2018 @ 22:02:36
Is this about a panel at Worldcon? One issue about discussing the merits of particular stories it that people don’t like to go on record dissing other authors. It’s just downright rude, and likely means you’re the next person that’s going to get attacked.
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Shadowdancer Duskstar / Cutelildrow
Aug 21, 2018 @ 18:30:38
Have another example: http://monsterhunternation.com/2018/08/21/i-know-now-why-you-cry-k-tempest-bedford-forrest-but-its-something-i-can-never-do/#comments
Before you try to smudge that the Puppies were not mentioned by ‘name’, Larry was the guy who started it, Brad Torgersen did the SP3 campaign, which was the big one that resulted in much media panic and slandering. So please don’t even try.
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thephantom182
Aug 21, 2018 @ 20:07:47
Shadowdancer said: “Have another example:”
Somebody’s sssssalty, Shadow! ~:D hee! Can you believe she tweeted that? What a dork!
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Lela E. Buis
Aug 17, 2018 @ 12:53:31
Just checked out the retro Hugo winners list. Appears to be all white men?
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thephantom182
Aug 17, 2018 @ 21:18:33
Well naturally! Everybody knows that women were excluded from SF completely until 2002, Lela. [haughty sniff, flounce]
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Lela E. Buis
Aug 17, 2018 @ 22:15:43
Brackett, Leigh, 1915-1978
“Child of the Green Light” (Super Science Stories, February 1942)
“The Sorcerer of Rhiannon” (novelette; Astounding Science Fiction, February 1942)
“Child of the Sun” (novelette; Planet Stories, Spring 1942)
“Out of the Sea” (novelette; Astonishing Stories, June 1942)
“Cube from Space” (Super Science Stories, August 1942)
“Outpost on Io” (Planet Stories, Winter 1942)
Jameson, Storm, 1891-1986 Then We Shall Hear Singing: A Fantasy in C Major. London: Cassell & Company, 1942; New York, The Macmillan Company.
Rosmond, Babette,1917-1997
“Are You Run-Down, Tired-” by Babette Rosmond Lake with Leonard M. Lake in Unknown Worlds, October 1942.
Hull, Edna Mayne, 1905-1975
“The Flight That Failed” vt. “Rebirth: Earth” by E. M. Hull and/or A. E. van Vogt in Astounding Science Fiction, Vol 30, No 4, December 1942.
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thephantom182
Aug 17, 2018 @ 23:07:04
Lela, it is very problematic of you to cloud the issue with facts like that. Inappropriate, even.
Besides, you forgot Andre Norton and James Tiptree. ~:D
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Lela E. Buis
Aug 17, 2018 @ 23:47:51
The retro Hugo given this year is for 1942. I don’t think Norton and Tiptree really got established until the 1950s.
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thephantom182
Aug 18, 2018 @ 00:58:22
Facts and logic are a Patriarchy thing, Lela. James Tiptree should totally win the 1942 Retro, even if she didn’t publish until the ’50s.
(This is less mockery of SJWs than me repeating an argument I read by some feminist-ally CUNY professor guy. I’d post a link, but I think I burned the connection out of my memory with a laser.)
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Cora
Aug 17, 2018 @ 23:44:08
Lewis Padgett, author of “The Twonky”, is the writing team of Henry Kuttner and C.L. Moore, who was a woman. And I’m also a bit disappointed that none of the very fine Leigh Brackett stories eligible for the 1943 Retro Hugos made the ballot.
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Lela E. Buis
Aug 17, 2018 @ 23:50:33
Thanks for checking in with that. I’m disappointed, too.
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Thomas Monaghan
Aug 20, 2018 @ 00:54:39
Leigh Brackett was a fine lady and writer says a person who hads his collection of Brackett’s novels autographed and had coffee and cookies at her house with Leigh and her husband Edmond Hamilton in 1976.
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thephantom182
Aug 24, 2018 @ 17:12:58
Just thought I’d throw this on the fire, since we’re having one:
https://www.pbs.org/show/its-lit/
“It’s Lit! is a series of smart, funny video essays from PBS Digital Studios about our favorite books and why we love to read. Hosted by Lindsay Ellis, the series delves into topics like the evolution of YA, how science fiction mirrors our own anxieties, and why the book is sometimes just a _bit_ better than the movie.”
Yes, a PBS show about SF/F, in part, hosted by cute little White girl Lindsay Ellis, and fairly representative of what Lela was talking about in this post.
Why? Well, lets take a look at Lindsay Ellis.
See reply, as I stick-handle around WordPress.
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thephantom182
Aug 24, 2018 @ 17:17:08
Part 2, who is this Lindsay Ellis chick? And why do we care?
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/pbs-host-lindsay-ellis-i-get-really-excited-about-white-genocide/
Seems Lindsay has some… interesting views.
“White genocide sounds rad,” she said in 2015. “How do we make it happen sooner?”
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Contrarius
Aug 24, 2018 @ 18:45:53
@thephantom —
Thanks for the laugh!
1. It’s hysterically funny that you would quote a Breitbart offshoot as a supposedly reliable source for anything. But we can all absolutely count on them to ignore the humor in anything that they have a chance to clutch their pearls about.
2. As Larry Correia once said: “If I hated white men then A. I probably shouldn’t choose to live in rural Utah. and B. probably shouldn’t be one.”
Lindsay is a white woman who was born in Johnson City TN, a small city in the farthest NE corner of the state sandwiched between North Carolina and Virginia. According to Correia’s Law, she therefore can not possibly hate white people.
Yes, I know, I said on the previous thread that I was leaving again. But this post of yours was just too funny to let it pass. And now I’m going away yet again, chuckling all the way. 😉
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thephantom182
Aug 24, 2018 @ 19:50:32
Calvin said: “It’s hysterically funny that you would quote a Breitbart offshoot as a supposedly reliable source for anything.”
Its on her twitter feed. Anyone can go check. Anyone except hit-and-run Calvin, it seems.
She had some interesting things to say about Sad Puppies too, no doubt Calvin won’t check that either.
This is how CalvinBall works.
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